Has America Gone Dutch? March 7, 2007
Posted by The Love Doctor in Dating, More Money More Problems.trackback
I really and truly believe in the equality of men and women. Sure, we may have our differences, but at the end of the day, I consider us equals in all senses of the concept.
And yet, because of history, men are expected to pay for dates. Even hard-core feminists will accept or secretly expect the man to pickup the tab at the end of the date.
The more you think about it, the weirder that is, especially for incredibly expensive NYC.
Well that’s history, I guess…. but have/are things changing in the country or at least in NYC?
I’m not sure that I know for sure, but here’s my current outlook at least for NYC.
The First Date
The guy absolutely must pay for the first date, no exceptions. He can’t even entertain the idea if the girl offers to pay.
The Second Date
The second date is basically the same, but if the girl is super firm and persistent about helping pay, if the guy refuses to let her help pay, he starts to look like an insecure asshole. Warning: Don’t mistake “super firm and persistent” for “hey let’s split it.” The guy has to firmly refuse the girl a few times until it’s clear that she’s not going to take no for an answer.
The Third Date
On the third date if she offers to help pay the guy should say “oh okay why don’t you just put down the tip”…thereby introducing the concept of sharing the bill without having actually split it.
Fourth Date
If the girl doesn’t offer to split this bill by this point, this guy is in serious trouble unless he is an I-Banker. The fourth date is the last stand unless the guy wants the rules/expense of that first date to go on…..forever.
Personally, I would stop dating a girl that didn’t offer by date 4, but then again
…I’m not an I-banker.
Yea, I’d concur. This should be called the “Fourth Date Rule.”
However, this entry seems to primarily focus on the dinner or meal payment. Post-dinner activities, be it drinks at a bar or club or seeing a movie can add another layer of complexity to the payment situation. After I’ve paid for a meal, sometimes I’ve had a very cool date offer to buy the first round at the bar afterwards and I always have to tip my hat to girls that don’t sit back and just presume that the guy will pay. It’s not about the money per se, but it’s more about the presumptuousness and the principle at hand.
while i do expect the guy to pay for dinner, i’ll usually offer to pay for our post-dinner activities (coffee, drinks, movies, etc.). however, i do get really annoyed if the guy picked the restaurant, ordered a meal/drinks that was a lot more expensive than mine, and then expected me to split the bill. it’s even more annoying if the guy makes 3 times more than what i make and/or puts himself out as a baller.
Hi Maggie,
Interesting comment. Here’s a question. How long/for how many dates do you expect the guy to pay for dinner? What if you make the same amount of money? Is there some point at which this expectation becomes unfair, even if you’re not yet in a relationship?
Maggie makes the obvious point which I think extends into just common courtesy and common sense (eg. don’t pick an uber expensive restaurant beyond the wallet capacity of attending guests and then expect a fair split of the bill), but to what degree does it matter what someone makes? If a guy makes say 200k a year, do girls expect him to take them out to Le Bernandin and other bank account depleting restaurants?
Obviously, “Maggie” is way ahead of the curve in her willingness to financially balance out a date by buying the post-dinner coffee or whatnot. Spread the word!!
Hi Love Doctor,
In response to your question, i would say that i expect the guy to pay for dinner for the first 3-4 dates, which is generally the number of dates it takes to determine if you want to continue “seeing” each other, even if we make the same amount of money. i think of the first couple of dates as the “courting” period, where the guy is pursuing the girl and generally trying to impress her. it doesn’t take more than 4 dates to know if you want to keep seeing someone, and at this point, a girl should offer to pay for some of the dates if she wants to continue seeing the guy. honestly, i’m not a fan of girls who string guys along for months on end w/o making a decision but have no qualms about making the guy pay for everything. the expectation of a guy paying for dinner becomes unfair when you both have an invested interest in the possibility of a relationship, because at this point, both parties should put in an equal effort to make the relationship work. and even tho there are no hard and fast rules to dating, i’d say this happens around the 3rd-4th date.
I have a guestion ,whats the rule on friends with benifits are we saposed to split. or is it assumed he has to pay ,because he ussaly does put we arent dateing so what hapens here .He does make more than tripple of what I make and he doesent seem to mind to pay.I assume he enjoys my commpany beacase he is allways the one that wants to go out and eat when I could just as well go home and go to sleep.
There’s no obligation for just the guy to pay in a friends with benefits situation, but he definitely and obviously chose to pay. If he makes a huge amount more than you, there shouldn’t be an expectation but he should offer.
The real issue is that if he can pay he should pay, simply because shores up the strength of his friends with benefits situation by making you more willing to hang out than you might otherwise be.
However, just to be safe, every other date or every third date you should offer to pay.